Battling with Business
In this podcast, Gareth Tennant, a former Royal Marines Officer, and Chris Kitchener, a veteran of the software development world, explore ideas and concepts around teams and teamwork, leaders and leadership, and all things in between. It’s a discussion between a former military commander and a business manager, comparing and contrasting their experiences as they attempt to work out what makes teams, leaders, and businesses tick.
Episodes

Thursday Jun 27, 2024
Thursday Jun 27, 2024
In this episode of 'Battling with Business,' hosts Chris and Gareth delve into the topic of leadership philosophies. They begin by defining what a leadership philosophy is and discussing the importance of creating one. The conversation then turns to their individual philosophies. Chris outlines a series of guiding principles that form his philosophy, while Gareth breaks his down into three components: the Leadership Theory, the Perspective, and the Principles.
As they explore each other's philosophies, they discuss the relevance and universality of these ideas. Gareth emphasizes that his philosophy is largely aspirational, aimed at continuous improvement both as a leader and as a person. Towards the end of the episode, Gareth introduces his Warfighting Leadership Philosophy, explaining how his approach would shift in a military context. Despite the specific focus required for military operations, both Chris and Gareth agree that many of these principles are applicable to everyday life as well. Gareth, however, notes that the areas highlighted in his warfighting philosophy are particularly crucial for military leadership.

Thursday Jun 20, 2024
Thursday Jun 20, 2024
In this episode of 'Battling with Business,' hosts Chris and Gareth delve into the complex and impactful topic of toxic leadership. They start by defining what constitutes toxic leadership, emphasising behaviours and traits that undermine, exploit, and harm organisations and individuals. The discussion then shifts to the "dark triad" of personality traits; narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy—often found in toxic leaders.
Chris and Gareth examine why toxic leaders emerge and thrive within organisations, considering factors such as cultural acceptance, flawed recruitment processes, and the allure of short-term results. Throughout the episode, they provide insights and anecdotes that highlight the consequences of toxic leadership and the importance of addressing it proactively to foster healthier, more effective work environments.

Thursday Jun 13, 2024
Thursday Jun 13, 2024
In this episode of "Battling with Business," Chris and Gareth delve into the concepts of coalitions and partnerships, starting with clear definitions and distinctions between the two. They explore the formation of these alliances, examining whether they arise from deliberate choices or situational necessities.
The hosts then navigate the complexities of managing strategies when multiple stakeholders, each with unique motivations and objectives, are involved. An interesting historical anecdote is shared about Canada and Denmark engaging in a war while both were allies and NATO members, illustrating the nuances of such relationships.
The discussion shifts to the benefits of coalitions in problem-solving, emphasising the value of diverse perspectives. Gareth shares insights from his experience working with other NATO members, highlighting the collaboration between the Royal Marines and the United States Marine Corps.
In their concluding discussion, Chris and Gareth compare democracies and autocracies, ultimately arguing that despite the inherent messiness of democratic systems, they offer a strategic advantage. This advantage stems from shared values and collaborative problem-solving within their coalitions and partnerships.

Thursday Jun 06, 2024
Thursday Jun 06, 2024
In this Influencers episode of "Battling with Business," Chris and Gareth delve into the fascinating life and lasting effect of Admiral John 'Jackie' Fisher on the Royal Navy, The United Kingdom, and the World. They explore how Fisher's leadership, despite its toxic traits, led to significant positive outcomes. This raises interesting questions about what we view a good leadership and where the balance between self-belief and arrogance.
The discussion explores Jackie Fisher's role in the industrial modernisation of the Royal Navy and highlights the challenges of balancing radical modernisation with preserving valuable, hard-learned experiences.
Additionally, Chris and Gareth draw parallels between Fisher's era and the current geopolitical climate, comparing the threats posed by the Central Powers in the run-up to the First World War with Russia's resurgence today. Through this historical lens, they offer insights into how leadership and strategic decisions from the past can inform contemporary global dynamics.
Admiral John 'Jackie' Fisher (1841-1920) was a seminal figure in the Royal Navy, known for his transformative impact on naval warfare. Born in Ceylon (modern-day Sri Lanka), Fisher joined the Royal Navy at a young age and quickly rose through the ranks due to his strategic acumen and innovative thinking.
Fisher is best known for his radical modernisation of the Royal Navy. As First Sea Lord, he initiated a comprehensive overhaul of naval forces, advocating for the decommissioning of obsolete ships and the construction of new, advanced vessels. This so-called ‘Dreadnought Revolution’ was perhaps his most notable achievement. The Dreadnought was groundbreaking, with superior speed, armament, and armour, rendering all previous battleships obsolete and sparking a global naval arms race.
In addition, his advocacy for Submarines, Battlecruisers, and the use of sea mines recognising their potential to change naval warfare. His support led to significant advancements in these areas, further enhancing the Royal Navy's capabilities.
Fisher's leadership style was marked by his bold, sometimes abrasive personality. He was known for his fierce determination and willingness to challenge the status quo, traits that both drove his successes and stirred controversy. Despite his often toxic leadership traits, including a propensity for conflict with colleagues, Fisher's vision and reforms were instrumental in maintaining British naval supremacy during a crucial period.
Fisher's impact on naval strategy and ship design had lasting effects on global naval power dynamics. His emphasis on innovation and modernization set the standard for future naval developments. His work ensured that the Royal Navy remained a dominant force leading up to and during World War I, influencing naval tactics and shipbuilding practices worldwide.
In summary, Admiral John 'Jackie' Fisher was a transformative figure whose aggressive modernization efforts and forward-thinking strategies reshaped the Royal Navy and left an indelible mark on naval history.

Thursday May 30, 2024
Thursday May 30, 2024
Podcast Episode Summary: Emergence in Strategy and Innovation (Part 2)
In this second episode of our two-part series on the concept of emergence, Chris and Gareth delve into how emergence impacts strategy and innovation. The episode begins with a recap of our previous discussion, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of the need for a clear purpose that aligns with an organisation’s vision. This alignment is crucial because, in an emergent strategy, the mission may evolve and change over time.
Chris outlines three key disadvantages of an emergent strategy:
Lack of Direction: Without a clear path, efforts can become scattered.
Risk of Incoherence: Strategies may become inconsistent, leading to confusion.
Difficulty in Evaluating Progress: Measuring success can be challenging when goals are not fixed.
Gareth then examines the Iraq War, illustrating how strategic incoherence contributed to its failure.
Despite these challenges, the episode highlights several advantages of emergent strategies:
Greater Resilience to Shocks: Organisations can better withstand unexpected events.
Increased Innovation Potential: Flexibility allows for more creative solutions.
Greater Adaptability to Change: Companies can swiftly adjust to new circumstances.
Join us as we navigate the complexities of emergent strategies, balancing their drawbacks with their potential for fostering innovation and resilience.

Wednesday May 22, 2024
Wednesday May 22, 2024
"Often in complexity, there isn't a right answer. You are not trying to find efficiency, you're trying to find effectiveness!"
In this week's episode, Chris and Gareth delve into the concept of emergence and its profound impact on strategy and innovation. The discussion begins with trying to find a definition of emergence, explaining how complex systems and patterns arise from relatively simple interactions.
They explore the pivotal role of creativity in driving innovation, highlighting how self-organising teams can effectively foster innovative solutions when aligned with clear goals. Real-world examples from the commercial sector illustrate these points: IKEA's use of self-collection warehouses, Amazon's API-based infrastructure, and Pfizer's serendipitous discovery of Viagra demonstrate how emergent strategies can be leveraged effectively.
The conversation then shifts to historical and military contexts, examining the German Blitzkrieg and its connection to emergent strategy and the principles of Mission Command. The hosts argue that necessity often drives emergence, a theme they further explore by discussing the current Ukrainian operations in response to the Russian invasion.
Through these diverse examples, Chris and Gareth provide a comprehensive look at how emergence shapes strategy and innovation, both in business and in critical real-world situations.

Sunday May 19, 2024
Sunday May 19, 2024
In this episode, Chris interviews Gareth about his time conducting counter-piracy operations and uses this as a way of exploring what makes teams adaptable when faced with uncertainty and when under pressure.

Thursday May 16, 2024
Thursday May 16, 2024
In this week's podcast episode, hosts Chris and Gareth delve into the intricacies of military procurement, particularly focusing on why the British military faces significant challenges in this area compared to managing complex operations overseas. Gareth sheds light on the complexities of large procurement programmes, which involve managing risks, multiple stakeholders, future predictions, and financial considerations. They introduce the DLOD framework for programme management, providing a structured approach to tackling these challenges.
The conversation delves into the cultural and political dimensions of procurement, highlighting the various hurdles that need to be overcome. They explore the balance between solving problems quickly and achieving a satisfactory outcome, discussing the concept of 'good enough' solutions. Drawing on operational examples, they illustrate why commercial off-the-shelf solutions often outperform bespoke ones.
The discussion further evolves to examine innovation cycles and the importance of fostering a culture that promotes agility while remaining aligned with the organisation's strategic goals. Throughout the episode, Chris and Gareth offer insights and practical examples, shedding light on the complexities and nuances of military procurement and programme management.

Thursday May 09, 2024
Thursday May 09, 2024
In this episode of "Battling with Business," Chris and Gareth explore Brigadier Billy Mitchell, a controversial figure in the history of US airpower and naval warfare. As part of their "Influencer episodes" series, they analyse Mitchell's pioneering yet often contentious approach to military innovation and how his vision for airpower shaped modern warfare.
The hosts discuss Mitchell's experiences during the First World War, which led him to believe that a future Great Power War was likely and that airpower would play a critical role. Mitchell's advocacy for airpower resulted in significant clashes with military and political leaders, culminating in a court martial and eventual demotion.
Chris and Gareth examine Mitchell's bold approach, focusing on his advocacy for bombing trials on large naval battleships. They discuss the resulting political backlash, the challenges posed by leadership, and the role of hubris in stalling military progress. Through these discussions, they question whether Mitchell's experiences offer parallels to modern issues, such as the use of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), and consider the fine line between a visionary and a crank.
Overall, the episode offers valuable insights into how innovation and change can face resistance, especially within traditional institutions. The story of Brigadier Billy Mitchell becomes a reflection on the importance of vision in driving progress, despite opposition, and what it takes to challenge the status quo. Chris and Gareth conclude by considering how today's military and business leaders can learn from Mitchell's journey and whether his legacy resonates with current trends in warfare and technology.

Thursday May 02, 2024
Thursday May 02, 2024
In this week's episode, Chris and Gareth sit down with Rob Murray, a seasoned expert in intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, who has held significant roles including former head of innovation for NATO, lecturer at Johns Hopkins University, and now Chief Innovation Officer at Saab, as well as a non-residential member of the Atlantic Council.
The discussion delves into the complexities of political leadership within NATO, focusing on the unique challenges that arise when consensus-based decision-making is crucial. Rob Murray shares insights on the balance between slow, deliberate compromise and quick, decisive action. He argues that while consensus-driven processes can be time-consuming, they often lead to more comprehensive and robust outcomes due to the diversity of thought involved.
The conversation also explores strategies for managing risk and fostering positive change in uncertain and complex environments. Rob provides an example from his time with the NATO Innovation Fund, illustrating how bureaucratic and culturally risk-averse organizations can be encouraged to embrace new approaches and innovative thinking to address contemporary challenges.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the nuances of leadership and innovation within international defense organisations, as well as practical examples of driving change in traditional settings.
Finally, we chatted about de-centralisation of decision-making and how this , whilst ugly and inefficient may well be a better way of driving innovative thought and more quickly finding the right approach to solving problems than a centralised authority that whilst being may efficient, is very likely to be less effective.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the nuances of leadership and innovation within international defense organizations, as well as practical examples of driving change in traditional settings.